John Thomas Williams
From:
North Carolina
N.C. District: No. 2
Worker: T. Pat Matthews
No. Words: 544
Subject: JOHN THOMAS WILLIAMS
Person Interviewed: John Thomas Williams
Editor: G.L. Andrews
[TR: Date stamp: SEP 10 1937]
JOHN THOMAS WILLIAMS
77 years old. 1272 Pettigrew Street, Raleigh, North Carolina.
"I don't know who I am nor what my true name is. I wus born December
25, 1860 on a plantation in New Hanover County. The plantation belonged
to John Williams, whose wife wus named Isabella and the farm wus on
land which is now in the corporate limits of Wilmington, N.C.
"The reason I don't know who I am is that I don't remember my father
and mother or any of my people. When I got so I could remember anything
I wus with the Williams family. Marster an' missus, an' their family
are the only ones I ever looked upon as my people. They never told me
who I wus.
"After the war I stayed with them a long time and helped them on the
farm. They run a truck farm. I got along all right while I wus with the
Williams family, but when I got grown I left them. I loved them but I
realized I wus a nigger and knew that I could never be like them, and
that I wus one to myself.
"When I left I went to Little Washington, N.C. Then to Plymouth. I
stayed at these places several years working as a hand on truck farms.
From there I went to Charlotte, Greensboro, and Norfolk. I then went
North an' stayed eight years in New York City as a waitman for a white
man and his family. I then went to Plymouth, N.C.
"I married Maggie Swain, a former sweetheart, as soon as I got back to
Plymouth. We had two children. She lived six years. I then married Mary
Davenport of Little Washington. We had seven children. She died and I
come to Raleigh and married Maggie Towel. We had no children by our
marriage.
"I own no home and have never owned one. Excepting the eight years I
spent in New York City my life has been spent in farming. I farm some
now and do little jobs for the white folks.
"I don't know much about slavery, as I wus too young to know much about
it. There wus other slaves belonging to Marster Williams but I don't
remember any of them because when I got so I could know what it wus all
about they were free and gone from the plantation.
"I have asked thousands of questions trying to find out who my people
are but no one has ever told me who I am or who my people are. If I
have any brothers and sisters, I don't know it.
"I have nothing to say about being partly white, I leave that to your
imagination. I have thought about it a lot. I don't know.
"I have been blessed with good health, I am breaking now but I am still
able to do light jobs.
"I am a good fiddler. The white folks have taught me to do lots of
different things. I have had very few advantages and I cannot read and
write.
"I have never been in jail in my life. I can give good references from
dozens of white folks. I try to live right, be honest and above all
give my fellow man a square deal."
LE
Interview with LIZZIE WILLIAMS, Ex-slave,
35 Max Street,
Asheville, N.C.
By Marjorie Jones, Aug. 24, 1937.
"I's bo'n in Selma, Alabam', I can't mind how long ago, but jes 'bout
ninety yeahs. I come to dis country 'bout 1882. Yes, I's purty porely
des days an' I's gettin' homesick for my ol' home.
"I's bo'n and lib on ol' man Billy Johnson's plantation--thousan's
acres of groun' and plenty of niggahs. My pappy he allus b'long to ol'
man Billy. He not sich a bad man but de Lawd knows I's seed bettah
ones. When I's right sma't size Missy Mixon, she was Marse Billy's wife
sistah, she get Marse Billy to let her hab me. She war a good woman.
She took me to town to lib and make a little white girl outten me.
Y'all knows what I means; I got treated moh like de white folks den de
res' of de' niggahs.
"But 'twarn't long afore Missy send me to New 'Leans to nurse de sick
chile of her sistah. I never war satisfi' down dar. Evverbody so
differen'. But de nex' year we go back to Alabam'.
"I went to Marse Ellis Mixon's, he tubble mean to his niggahs. But I
belong to de Missus, she allus treat me good. All de little niggahs
have to learn to work when dey little; get out'n pull weeds; dey neber
had no time to play. Most dem niggahs was scared to death, jes like de
ones on Billy Johnson's plantation. Dey know dey get whupped jes like
a mule iffen dey act like dey don' wanna wurk. Dey neber get much to
eat, jes side meat, co'n bread and 'lasses. Ol' Billy he had overseers
whut was mean to de pore niggahs. Sometime dey ties dem up an' dey
strip dem and dey whups dem wif cow hide, else dey lets other niggahs
do it.
"All de niggahs have to go to church, jes lik' de white fokes. Dey have
a part of de church for demselfs. After de wah we hab a church of our
own. All de niggahs love to go to church an' sing. I mind a lot of de
songs we used ter sing in de fiel's. I mind my pappy used ter sing in
de fiel'. 'Git on bo'd, little chillun, git on bo'd.' Sometimes day
babtiz in de ribber. Den dey sing:
"'I wanna be ready
I wanna be ready
I wanna be ready good Lawd to walk in Jarusalem jes like John.
John say de city was jes four square,
To walk in Jarusalem jes like John.
But I'll meet my mothah and fathah dar,
To walk in Jarusalem, jes like John.'
"I 'members 'bout de paddyrollers. De niggahs hab' to get a pass from
de massa or de missus if dey go ennywhar. De paddyrollers jes lik'
police. 'Bout dozen of dem ride 'long togedder. Fus thing dey say:
'Whar yo' pass?' Den iffen yo' hab one dey lets you go but iffen you
don' hab one dey strips yo' to de waist and dey lams yo' good till de
blood comes. Sometime dey rolls you over a barrel and lams you while
de barrel rolls.
"I mind a tale my pappy tell 'bout one time he see de paddyrollers
comin'. He scared to death cas he did'n hab no pass. He kno' iffen dey
finds him whut dey do. So pappy he gets down in de ditch an' throw sand
an' grunts jes like a hawg. Sho' nuf dey thinks he a hawg and dey pass
on, cept one who was behin' de others. He say: 'Dat am de gruntin'es
ol' hawg I ebber hear. I think I go see him.' But de udders day say:
'Jes let dat ol' hawg lone an' min' yo own business.' So day pass on.
Pappy he laff 'bout dat for long time.
"I mind ol' Mose, he hab monthly pass from de massa but he forgit it
one day and de paddyrollers whup him and throw him in de callaboose. In
de mawnin' when de massa wake and fin no fresh water and no fire in de
stove and de cows not milk, he say: 'I know Mose in de callaboose,' and
he hab to go atter Mose.
"Lots of de pore niggahs run away, but 'twarn't no use. Der wa'nt no
place to go. Day was allus lookin' for you and den you had to work
harder den ebber, 'sides all kin's of punishment you got. Den dey
nearly sta've you to def, jes feed you on bread and water for long
time.
"De niggahs nebber kno' nothin' 'bout learnin', jes wuk' all dey's fit
for. De only thing I ebber do wif a book is jes to dust it off. I mind
two little niggahs whose missy teach dem to read. Emily, she look lik'
a white gal. She was treated jes like she white. Her daddy was a white
man. Emily was a sma't gal. She belong to one of de Johnson mens. She
do all de sewin' for her missy. When de missy go to buy clothes for de
chillun she allus take Emily along. Her pappy pay no more 'tention to
her den to de res' of de niggahs. But de missy she was good to her. She
never stay in de quarters, she stay in de house with de white fokes.
But Emily have de saddes' look on her yaller face cas' de other niggahs
whisper 'bout her pappy.
"Many de pore niggah women hab chillun for de massa, dat is iffen de
massa a mean man. Dey jes tell de niggahs whut to do and dey know
better den to fuss.
"Ol' missus she good to me. I mind one time I got tubble mad an' say
some ugly words. Marse Ellis he come up ahin' me and he say: ''Lizabeth
I gwina wallup yo' good for dat.' I 'mense cryin' and run to de missus
and she say: 'Look heah Ellis Mixon, y'all mind yo' own business an'
look atter yo' own niggahs. Dis one b'longs to me.' Jes same when de
missus went upstairs Marse Ellis take me in de smoke house and sta't to
hit me. I yell for de missus an' when she come she plenty mad. Marse
say he nebber ment to whup me, jes scare me little.
"I mind 'bout de wah. We niggahs neber know whut it 'bout. We jes go on
an' work. Nebber see nothin', nebber hear nothin', nebber say nothin',
but de wah all 'roun'. Evah day we heah dat de Yankee sojers comin'. De
plantations was gittin' robbed. Evabody kep' a hidin' things. It was a
tubble time. I mind plain when dey comes to Selma. All de fokes was at
church when de Yankees come. Day warn't no fightin' much, dey didn' hab
time. Dey jes march in an' take de town. But O, Lawdy, dat night dey
burn de stores an' houses an' take all de things dey want. Cannons and
guns all 'round, it war tubble sight.
"Marse Ellis' plantation 'bout 15 mile from Selma on Pea Ridge. I mind
one night Marse come home from town and he say: 'Lizabeth.' I say,
'Yes, suh.' He say: 'Bring me some fresh watah from de spring.' I run
as fas' as I kin an' bring de watah an' gib it to him, den he say:
'Lizabeth, de Yankees am comin' soon, an' I knows yo'se gwin to tell
'em where I hide all my 'longings, guns an' ebberthing.'
"'No' I says, 'jes why would I tell whar yo' hide yo' guns an' things?'
Missy come in den and she say: 'Go on an' let Lizzie 'lone, bettah be
feared dem niggahs you done so mean to gwine tell, dats all you got to
be feared of. But you, let Lizzie 'lone, she b'long to me.'
"Marse Ellis he go out an' hide some mo' stuff. Dat night de sojers
burn Selma. Dat war on Sunday. Next night we wake up in de middle of de
night an' de house what we keep de bes' carriage an' horse was
a'burnin'. De pore ho'se done break outten de barn an' was a runnin'
roun' all over de place a'screamin' wif her poor back bu'nt tubble. We
nebber find out iffen de Yankees set de barn fire or not. Guess dey
did. Dey done set Marse Hyde's house afire an' burn it to de groun'
with Marse Hyde in it. Marse Hyde he had plantation in New 'Leans and
when de Yankees take de town Marse Hyde he promise not to leave but
when de sojers [HW: know] he 'scape and come to his house on Pea Ridge,
so when de Yankees fin' him here dey burn him in de house wif all his
'longings.
"On de Tuesday mawnin' after dey burn Selma I wake up to see Marse
Ellis' plantation all surroun' wif Yankee sojers. I war nigh scared to
death. I so 'fraid dey hurt me an' Missy but dey didden, dey jes march
through de house an' when dey see Marse Ellis dey ask him for he guns
an' things dey want. Marse Ellis show dem whar de things war. 'Twarn't
no use to do anything else. I take Marse Frank's 'backer an' hide it in
de Missus' trunk. Den when de sojers git what dey want dey laugh and
ma'ch 'way on de hill.
"After de surren'er all de niggahs jes lost. Nowhar to go, nothin' to
do, 'less dey stay wif de massa. Nobuddy hab anything but 'federate
money and it no good. My pappy had 'bout three hunner dolla's but
'twarn't no good 'tall.
"All some of de white fokes think of war killin' de pore niggahs what
worked for dem for yeahs. Dey jes scour de country and shoot dem,
'specially de young men. One day dey come down de road to'ards my
pappy. Dey start askin' questions 'bout what he gwine to do now he
free. 'What I gwin to do?' says pappy. 'What can I do? I jes stay on de
plantation an' help ol' Massa iffen I can get an ol' mule an' a piece
of an ol' plow.'
"One of de boys look at pappy an' say: 'I like take yo' head for a
target,' but de ol' man wif dem say no so dey leave my pappy 'lone. Dey
hab de commissary whar de fokes git food; it b'long to de Yankee
sojers. Food scarce lik' ebberthing. Folks say now dey hab hard times;
dey don' know nothin' 'bout hard times less day lib in war time and be
slave to white fokes.
"Den dey was de Ku Klux Klan. Dey war frightful lookin' critters. My
pappy say dey go out in de country an' tie pore niggahs to de tree and
beat 'em to death. Dey dress all kin's of fashions. Most of dem look
like ghosts. Dey nebber go lik' de paddyrollers, dey jes sneak 'round
at night when de poor niggahs in bed. Den 'bout twelve 'clock dey tie
up all de niggahs dey ketch and atter dey through beatin' dem dey
leaves dem wif dey han's tied in de air and de blood astreamin' outten
dey backs.
"Atter freedeom I come heah to live wif my fokes de Williams's, dats
how I come to be Williams. Nebber had no chillun of my own. Dey calls
me 'Lizbeth Johnson 'fore I went to live with de Mixons, den I be one
of de Mixon niggahs, den later I be a Williams; don' guess names matter
much no way."
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Penny Williams
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